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10. キムタクとジェイ・Zとホリエモン

LARGE IRON: うまいなと思うラッパーいます?

MC松島: いや、みんなうまいですよ。お金払って見たいと思うアーティストはみんなうまいですね。でも、正直ヒップホップのライブはやっぱ耐えれないですね。僕個人の趣味としてもそうですし、野球場でやれるか?っていうのは正直あります。どんなに上手くても。

LARGE IRON: え、それはスタジアムでってこと?

MC松島: はい。それは国民性っていうかアメリカ人とか日本人が違うってのもあると思いますけど、どんなに上手くてもやっぱ DJ のライブだとたかが知れてるっていうか。まあバンドでやりゃ良いと思うんですけど、そういう風に発展してかないとちょっと無理あるなって。億万長者になるのは無理あると思いますね。優れてる劣ってるはないし、どちらにも素晴らしさありますし、どっちが簡単かって話でもないと思うんですけど、コンテンツとして情報量が少なすぎる、ヒップホップのライブは。

LARGE IRON: うん。

MC松島: どんなに上手かろうが、その人が超スターじゃない限り成立しないと思いますね。例えばですけど、本当にめっちゃラップ上手いし、ライブも上手い人のライブよりも、キムタクがヒップホップライブするって方が面白いじゃないですか。そういうもんなんだなって思ってますね。アートフォームとして。そいつ次第っていうか。キムタク目指さねえと始まらねえなっていう。

LARGE IRON: キムタクを目指す。それは要するに個の力を高めるってこと?

MC松島: そうですね。キムタクの見た目、キムタクの演技力なり歌唱力なりキャラクター性。ぐらいのポテンシャルじゃないと、何万人の前で耐え切れるコンテンツじゃないと僕は正直思います。

LARGE IRON: それは日本では、ってことな訳じゃん?大前提としてはさ。

MC松島: アメリカも近いと思うっすね。

LARGE IRON: ジェイ・Z がやればスタジアムとかでもぱっつんぱっつんなのかな?

MC松島: 今はわかんないですけどジェイ・Z はキムタクより多分キムタクですからね。あっちでは。めちゃくちゃ金持ちだし。

LARGE IRON: なるほど、タレント性がものすごいってことね、キムタクってのはね。

MC松島: やっぱその日本国内においてホリエモンとかより金持ってるラッパーとかが出てこないと、「俺らずっとツーターンテーブルでやってるんだぜ」って理由にはならないですね、正直。「楽器くらい買えよ」ってみんな思いますもん。悲しいすけど。

LARGE IRON: うん。

MC松島: 「これは、こういう古典な様式でやってますよ」って感じでやってますけど正直言えば、実際カラオケと大差ないですし。

LARGE IRON: 音かけてやってるからね。

MC松島: ってなると、そんな高尚なもんじゃないっていうのはバレバレだっていうか。それを高尚なもののようにやってきてるから、そりゃあ流行んねえわなっていう。

LARGE IRON: いやー、すごいこと言ってるね、まっちゃん(笑)うん、すごいな(笑)

MC松島: いや、絶対そうですよ。何が悪いかとかないと思いますけど、まあ一般的な考え方はそう思われるだろうと。で、そう思われる原因はこっちにあるだろうと。まあ僕はどっちつかずでやってますけど。
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11. 夢と現実

LARGE IRON: ただなんかやっぱそのね、ヒップホップをラップを始めた人がもっと夢、昔の方が見れてた感あるもんな。今よりもな。

MC松島: そうですね。

LARGE IRON: 俺らは、少なくとも俺はそうで、でも若い人から本当に中学生/高校生からすれば今の日本のヒップホップも物凄く夢のあるフィールドに映ってるのかもしれないし、

MC松島: それは映ってないですね。

LARGE IRON: 映ってないのかね、そういうもんかい?

MC松島: 映ってないし小さい夢を見てる人達の中に入っちゃってますね。

LARGE IRON: ラッパーでメシを食うとかってこと?

MC松島: なんかそのメシを食うって思ってやってる人もいると思うんですけど。目標がすごい低いっていうか、例えば「MCバトルで日本一になる」とかになっちゃってるんですよ。昔だったら「世界を変える」くらいの奴がゴロゴロいたと思うんです。それが「どこどこのステージに立つ」「日常生活のことを歌う」ようなことが多いじゃないですか?こういう生活してて、こういうラップ書いて、それがたまにすげえ良いと思うんだよね、みたいなことを共感するみたいになってきてるんで、そんなに夢ないと思いますね。中高生とか。

LARGE IRON: (苦笑)

MC松島: 逆に漫画描いて毎週ジャンプに連載して映画化してアニメにもしてグッズの版権でお金増えるぜ。ってやつの方が全然夢あると思いますね。お笑い芸人とか漫画家とか。

LARGE IRON: 俺はね、まっちゃんね、ヒップホップを夢あるなって思ってもらいたいと思うわけですよ。僕は。

MC松島: だとしたらカネじゃ買えない経験。と友達?それか、すげえ車に乗ってみたりとか、今はヒップホップってそのどっちかになってますよね。カネか、もしくはカネでは買えないすげえことがあるだろと。

LARGE IRON: なんかそのヒップホップを糧にして大金を得て億万長者になっていくっていうことが夢があることなのか、単純にラップをやったりとか、ヒップホップに興味を持ったことが、結果的に良かったって思えればそれで良いのかね?

MC松島: 僕はその考えに近いですね。本当に僕夢叶いまくってますもん。だって、ブエノスでライブとか凄い小さいですけど、エイジアとかハーレムのステージも立ちましたし。それ中高生の僕からしたら考えつかないことだし。好きなアーティストと会って喋ったりとか、楽屋に入れるとか。完全に夢叶ってるんで。

LARGE IRON: 俺もそういう風に考えたら夢叶ってるわ。確かに見れない景色も見てきたし、びっちびちの大きい箱で人が動くとステージ上からはこういう風に観えるんだって感じたこともあったし、でもいかんせん、何が欲しいんだろうな、ヒップホップやってて。何が欲しいんだろう?大金が欲しいのかな?

MC松島: 大金じゃないですよ。

LARGE IRON: そうだよな。

MC松島: 大金が欲しくてやってたらちょっと才能なさすぎますし、ビジネスセンス無さすぎですよ。英語でやってアメリカでデビューするとかだったらまだわかりますけど、こんな狭いマーケットで。日本で一番ラップで稼いでる人でも年収1000万とかじゃないですか?札幌に年収1000万の人の何人居ますかね?ラップより札幌の方が多いくらいですよ。

LARGE IRON: 日本でラップだけで年収1000万ってとてつもないぜ?それ。

MC松島: 厳密にはヒップホップのアーティストとして芸能活動もあるのでラップだけってわけではないでしょうけど。貰ってる人はもっと貰ってると思うんですよ。3000万くらいですかね?

LARGE IRON: それ夢持たせようとしてる発言?

MC松島: いや現実問題ですね。ラップ以外にもいろいろな収入源あると思いますけど、3000万くらいはいるんじゃないですか?

LARGE IRON: え、何?東京でってこと?

MC松島: たぶん、はい。

LARGE IRON: 東京でってことね。そうなってくると想像つかないね。どうなんでしょうね。

MC松島: あと金持ちが周りにいると、なんかちょっと言っただけでお金貰える仕事とかあると思うんすよ。「これこっちにおいた方が良いよ」って言っただけでプロデューサーとしてお金が入ったりとか、上に行けば行くほどあると思うんで。3000万くらいはあると思いますけど、でも年収3000万って、もしかしてこれを見てる人のお父さんお母さんに居る可能性あるじゃないですか。そのお父さんお母さんがやってる仕事をやるべきだし。もっといっぱいあるじゃないですか大金稼ぐ為には。だからカネじゃないと思うんですよね。それかよほどビジネスセンスがないか。
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12. 面白い事がしたいです。

LARGE IRON: MC松島といえばtwitter上でいろいろ発信している人でさ。中でも最近は「面白い事したいです。」っていうつぶやきが目について。その「面白い事」って、例えばどういうことなの?

MC松島: あまり具体的ではないですけど、そのツイートを見て連絡をしてきた人が、たぶん面白いだろうと思ってつぶいてるだけですね。


LARGE IRON: なるほど。そのつぶやきを見て「MC松島さん、こんなことありますけどどうですか?」みたいな、ある意味リアクションを待ってると。

MC松島: はい。

LARGE IRON: なるほどね。話は尽きませんけども。今日はここまで。ありがとうございました~

MC松島: ありがとうございました。
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【書き起こし終わり】
突然な提案だったにも関わらずご協力頂いた LARGE IRON さん、MC松島 さん、本当にありがとうございます!ほぼ初めての書き起こしでしたが、お2人のトークのおかげで楽しく作業が出来ました!また、最後まで書き起こしにお付き合い頂いた方もありがとうございます!面白いことしましょう!

13. MC松島 vs LARGE IRON「FIVE WAYS」[2016]

最後に、今回文字起こしさせて頂いたお2人のスプリットEP「FIVE WAYS」をご紹介します。

「FIVE WAYS」は5種類のトラックを LARGE IRON と MC松島 が共有し、それぞれ別々に制作した5曲を持ち寄った計10曲をパッケージしたスプリットEPです。聴き比べて楽しむというコンセプトは冒頭でご紹介した「真髄」に通じる部分もありますね。下記リンクから購入可能です。

【特典アリ】MC松島 vs LARGE IRON – FIVE WAYS [CD]

真髄 / TOKYO TOGARI NEZUMI / 【最初のページから読む】